“Traditional Marriage”
I haven’t been political for a while now, but saw these and thought they were funny…
As much as I want gay marriage I wasn’t all that upset by the Prop 8 ruling. I think if people in the middle of the road see that the discrimination is real they’ll care a bit more next time it’s in their power to vote or sign a petition.
And if you haven’t heard, the two lawyers who fought each other on Gore v. Bush (a Democrat and a Republican) are teaming up to take the Prop 8 fight into federal court. Their argument is that it’s fundamentally unconstitutional to create separate institutions for separate classes of people – in this case domestic partnerships for gay men and lesbians, and marriage for heterosexuals. And that marriage is a “fundamental right”. I’m somewhat surprised that they didn’t also mention how dangerous it is for a majority to be able to take away a right of a minority, deemed constitutional by the courts, via a popular vote. One of the purposes of the courts is to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority. But that may factor into their arguments down the road – who knows…
Not surpringly most of the big gay rights groups are going ape shit over the lawsuit saying a negative precident could set us back years. I said pretty forcefully last year that I don’t agree with the hyper calculating approach to gay rights. I mean I get where they’re coming from and I know they have good intentions, but it just seems totally wrong to me to be polite and patient about discrimination. Call a bigot a bigot, be angry, challenge them…
as much as you should fight head on. you should never force your “issue” upon others. both sides are wrong here. the fed’s shouldnt force the state to allow gay marriage, that isnt how this country was founded, or ran. this is a state issue, we should focus on other states now. and when it comes around in 2010/2012 get it put on the ballot again. and this time instead of judging the right, or crucify them for not believing in gay marriage. we need to embrace the middle of the road people and get them to open up to the idea.
i personally think marriage is BS. let the churches keep that term, let the gov do civil unions.
Asking for equality isn’t “forcing your issue on others”. We’re not asking for special treatment – we’re asking for equality. I’d agree with you if it were special treatment, but it’s not.
As far as the term “marriage” – it is the legal term, hence it’s what we’re fighting for. Why are we the ones who have to come up with another term for what we want? Let them come up with a term for church marriages, if they feel so strongly about it.
Sorry, but I’m hearing too much of the “I’ll just sit in the back of the bus” from other gay folks… I’m sitting in the front of the bus, dammit… Arrest me if you want to…
taking your issue to the fed court, when the state has already issued it’s ruling on the matter, and sided with the voters is forcing your issue. if the fed’s rule against prop 8, it will force other states to allow marriage also, whos voters have already decided against it. until you take the term marriage out of it, you will always have a religious argument, and people will vote religion before anything. look at the obama is a muslim, romney is a morman talk that was going on last yr.
and what the fuck do you know about sitting in the back of the bus?? youre a middle aged white guy, who im going to assume is “straight acting” and living in NYC means you make a good amount of $$$$. this country was fucking built to please you.
The religious argument is moot. Atheists get married all the time.
As far as me being a middle aged white guy – that only means I understand the rights I’m denied.
ok, what rights have you been denied? being white? middle age? well off? straight acting?
why dont you try being black or chicano. or fem, or i can go on. see you fly right under the radar and never get judged or discriminated against so you dont have a clue what it’s like.
Well, for starters my boyfriend/husband of 12 years has immigration issues because I can’t give him citizenship… We spend thousands keeping him legal, doing wills, etc…
And then there’s all the subtle shit… People who could have done things for my career, but they were uncomfortable with my sexuality. Problems with bigoted family members, etc…
Well, I come from a country where Homosexuality is penalized up to 6 months in jail (Nicaragua). There has been a lot done over there, so I ran up north to Canada. I must say that when I arrived here I thought everybody here was open-minded about gay people, I was so WRONG! Even here, where the gay marraige is legal there are biggots and homophobes. Well, the fight goes on.
However, Life showed me that it is possible to live as a gay person, here and in my home country, next Fall, my boyfriend and I have 10 years together, we met in Nicaragua and lived there as a couple for almost 5 years till I moved up here.
“ok, what rights have you been denied? being white? middle age? well off? straight acting? ”
Oh God! the right that is not used is a lost right!
“you dont have a clue what it’s like”
Well, it seems that you have been descriminated and already gave up. For God Sakes! You are living in the so-call western democracy, take a stand, fill a petition, write to your MP (oops, the US has no Parlament)… well, those are some actions that I can understand look meanless… well, let people know you are gay, love yourself and show to those around you, you don’t have to educate people about homosexuality, the big majority are homophobic due to ignorance. Well, ignorance is not bad at all, it can be irradicated.
I applaud those that are “shoving” their gay issue in “others” throaths. good for them!
RawTop…I’m with you 100% on this one. This “majority” that will not allow gays to marry will NEVER voluntarily give us the right. Throughout history the “majority” has never willingly given up the “rights” which it has chosen to arbitrarily deny others.
Seems to me that the Supremes could choose to say “Look states it’s as simple as this: “separate but equal is inherently unequal…if you (the states) take federal dollars and deny this basic right…your federal dollars are gone…” Period, end of fucking story.
However, there’s a more fundamental issue here on which the “majority” absolutely refuses to yield and that is that homosexuality is NOT a choice. To acknowledge that would tear down it’s house of hypocrisy.
Unfortunately, as long as there continues to be a society, there will always be discrimination and bigotry. And to quote from one of my favorite Broadway shows, “Avenue Q” bigotry has never been exclusively white. The fact of the matter is that what is happening now, and will continue to happen if the federal government does not intercede, is exactly what happened in the 60s between white and black; separate but equal. What’s next? A water fountain for gays only and only for straights only?
Equality, and freedom, are two things that must be fought for each and every single day. They are not granted to us simply because we live in the United States. And how united can we really be when we stand on such separate issues?
Though, personally, I don’t believe in “marriage” per se; I don’t need a piece of paper or a priest or a bunch of witnesses to tell me I’m married. If I don’t feel married after having been with my partner for 13 years, then I don’t know what being married is. But I want the protection. And I want to be treated as an equal.
I agree with RT 100% and can appreciate everything wisibe stated.